More On the Point of Bitcoin As a Ponzi Scheme

By BitcoinGordon | BitcoinGordon | 6 Feb 2022


 

If you want to join in the discussion, it is here:

https://www.publish0x.com/bitcoingordon/a-few-thoughts-to-dismantle-the-bitcoin-is-a-ponzi-argument-xyyrypg#comment-KpA8q570xkry6eWG

Below is the interaction at the time I've chosen to address it.

This is simply too good an opportunity in addressing the points made, not to take advantage of it.

I would be dishonest if I said I actually have the time to write this one- the other two were in my leisure- this one is costing me on the clock, but it is worth it! Thanks to the reply-ers.

The discussion:

Trysty - 2 hours ago

 

Ponzi, pyramid, whatever. These are just names. The truth is that any cryptocurrency is totally worthless if the power goes out! PERIOD!

At least with paper money, the holders can make paper products like origami from the paper or they can wipe their bums with it. If you hold coins, you have the intrinsic value of the metal that the coin is made from. However, holding the numerical key to a vault that is in no physical space is akin to owning a unicorn… as long as you can convince people that the unicorn exists, its rarity will bring it much value, but when that trust is gone, so goes your imaginary unicorn!

That’s the hard truth, no matter what your brain wants to believe.

If crypto-currency was mined in a way that it produced something tangible such as ore or plants or anything that could be used on its own, then we would have something very special. Unfortunately, we don’t. Ask yourself this ONE question: If every owner of Bitcoin was to cash out their coins, what would happen? Now you have your answer!

On the other hand, if every bitcoin mined/minted/purchased, produced a banana tree, then when every holder of Bitcoin asked to cash out, they would be the proud owner of a banana tree for each coin they held. If you cannot understand this difference, you are beyond hope and there is no point in trying to make you understand why people use the words Ponzi or pyramid… they just don’t know a better way to label it.

After having said all that, I realize that having a FAKE/fiat money CAN work… we have been doing this for quite some time now. As long as there is a surplus of lender/HODLERS, it can work, but that doesn’t mean it has real value. In the past, when gold was held as security for each paper note printed, there was the security in knowing that if people decided not to hold the paper notes, they could trade it for gold. We can’t do that today and that is why our monetary system is broken.

If all holders of Bitcoin wish to ‘get out’ at the same time, what do you think they will get? More than likely, they get that imaginary unicorn. Only those who sold earlier will have gotten something they could actually use. Hmmm… that kind of sounds like a Ponzi scheme.

Do we need a new monetary system? Absolutely! Can Bitcoin be the answer? Maybe. Is it the best system? Not really.

 

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SeventyFourSeventyFive - an hour ago

 

So you got to the point that crypto is no better than the US dollar. When Nixon decided to take us off the gold standard, the end was going to come. Fortunately the robust US economy and dollar acting as the world currency has held the end off for quite some time.

“Only those that sold early” applies to anything. Until you realize your gain, any investment has a risk to lose it all.

His argument that it is not a Ponzi scheme does hold up, though. A Ponzi Scheme has a definite end game when the money from new people runs out when they realize no one is making return anymore. In theory, Bitcoin could go on forever. I wouldn’t invest more than you can afford to lose on that theory, though.

 

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Trysty - an hour ago

 

Actually, because bitcoin does not have inflation as does the USD, Bitcoin becomes superior to the dollar. But it still doesn’t provide intrinsic value.

Does a Ponzi scheme need a pre-determined end game? How long did the first Pozi scheme last? Could it not go on forever, considering we have the expression, “there’s a sucker born every minute”? As long as there are new contributors, the scheme can go indefinitely.

At least you are wise enough to leave room for doubt. By investing only what you can afford to lose, you indicate the potential for disaster is there… and it certainly is there. Greed is the main driver of Bitcoin right now. If and when Bitcoin actually becomes a universal currency (it has become official currency in one country already), I expect the value to stabilize and speculative trading to subside drastically because of the long time frame to turn a profit on speculation. At some point, the national gross domestic product (GDP) of the country will determine the value of the coin.

 

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BitcoinGordon - 2 hours ago

 

I appreciate your taking the time to write this. There are numerous points of failure in your argument. I’m not sure how much time I want to dedicate to dismantling what you see as true, but let’s just leave at this; I appreciate you taking the time to write.

 

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Trysty - an hour ago

 

Thanks. Although I wish you would provide details of where I may have erred. One cannot find truth if we have a closed mind. We cannot know what we don’t know, so if you don’t tell me, I will never know.

 

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BitcoinGordon - 23 minutes ago

 

I'll take the first part first:

Ponzi, pyramid, whatever. These are just names. The truth is that any cryptocurrency is totally worthless if the power goes out! PERIOD!

3 important things:

1) the primary point that I made in this article, is that Ponzi schemes are an entirely different thing from a pyramid scheme.

2) realizing that both arguments are flawed and are a tool used by the establishment through journalists is an incredibly important topic of our time.

3) The idea that cryptocurrency is worthless (there goes the shibboleth by the way) is commonly churned out by the exact identical journalists who clearly have no clue what they are talking about. I'll respond with my points after breaking down the next part.

At least with paper money, the holders can make paper products like origami from the paper or they can wipe their bums with it. If you hold coins, you have the intrinsic value of the metal that the coin is made from. However, holding the numerical key to a vault that is in no physical space is akin to owning a unicorn… as long as you can convince people that the unicorn exists, its rarity will bring it much value, but when that trust is gone, so goes your imaginary unicorn!

That’s the hard truth, no matter what your brain wants to believe.

Taking the next point: a definition of intrinsic value. This is stated not just in a manner that shows the individual does not believe there is any value in computational intellectual property because it cannot be held, or other uses made out of it outside of the internet. I won't do the long-form answer, but I have enough knowledge on the subject to demolish it utterly and completely.

If crypto-currency was mined in a way that it produced something tangible such as ore or plants or anything that could be used on its own, then we would have something very special. Unfortunately, we don’t. Ask yourself this ONE question: If every owner of Bitcoin was to cash out their coins, what would happen? Now you have your answer!

Two important points here, both which are terribly flawed, but again, I appreciate the importance of the debate. Whether the individual is truly taking a position or is a shill for the journalistic-integrity side of things, for which there is less proof of intrinsic value in today's world than imaginary internet unicorn money, remains to be seen.

1) Does the outcome only have intrinsic value if it is something I can touch, taste, smell, hear or eat? Isn't this also contradicting your previous definition of the value of completely devalued fiat money? I'll explain after breaking these down. "Fortunately, we do".

2) What would happen? Well, I would consider an end-of-the-world global pandemic that stopped all markets and commerce as a decent litmus test for what would happen. Bitcoin is still here, and so am I. You can disagree, but you cannot deny it is as valid a point as making airplanes out of dead printed fiat.

On the other hand, if every bitcoin mined/minted/purchased, produced a banana tree, then when every holder of Bitcoin asked to cash out, they would be the proud owner of a banana tree for each coin they held. If you cannot understand this difference, you are beyond hope and there is no point in trying to make you understand why people use the words Ponzi or pyramid… they just don’t know a better way to label it.

There are people in India, Africa and now El Salvador that will explain to you with much more zeal and eloquence just how much they appreciate how a Bitcoin can help them to acquire that banana tree that their government forbade of them, but I'll answer once breaking it all down.

After having said all that, I realize that having a FAKE/fiat money CAN work… we have been doing this for quite some time now. As long as there is a surplus of lender/HODLERS, it can work, but that doesn’t mean it has real value. In the past, when gold was held as security for each paper note printed, there was the security in knowing that if people decided not to hold the paper notes, they could trade it for gold. We can’t do that today and that is why our monetary system is broken.

We agree on some things here, but I'll address the "backed by gold" and use it in defense of the "doesn't mean it has real value" which is about to break like a #2 pencil during SATs.

If all holders of Bitcoin wish to ‘get out’ at the same time, what do you think they will get? More than likely, they get that imaginary unicorn. Only those who sold earlier will have gotten something they could actually use. Hmmm… that kind of sounds like a Ponzi scheme.

Do we need a new monetary system? Absolutely! Can Bitcoin be the answer? Maybe. Is it the best system? Not really.

I'll break this one down as well. I appreciate the "maybe" but have to tear apart the "not really".

Actually, because bitcoin does not have inflation as does the USD, Bitcoin becomes superior to the dollar. But it still doesn’t provide intrinsic value.

Again, with that intrinsic value 'thing'. I understand it's the argument people outside of the true understanding think they are supposed to argue, but it's not much different from arguing that the mental value of playing solitaire with real cards is, to your brain, real, while playing on PC has no comparative value. So many analogies, so little time.

Does a Ponzi scheme need a pre-determined end game? How long did the first Pozi scheme last? Could it not go on forever, considering we have the expression, “there’s a sucker born every minute”? As long as there are new contributors, the scheme can go indefinitely.

Yes, it does, because it always ends, and it always ends poorly. The fact that the one the governments are playing against us is still going just means our system hasn't collapsed yet, like all those prior. One could use the bailout of 2008 and the impetus of Bitcoin as a perfect example of why we have a more perfect, technological version of money to consider.

At least you are wise enough to leave room for doubt. By investing only what you can afford to lose, you indicate the potential for disaster is there… and it certainly is there. Greed is the main driver of Bitcoin right now. If and when Bitcoin actually becomes a universal currency (it has become official currency in one country already), I expect the value to stabilize and speculative trading to subside drastically because of the long time frame to turn a profit on speculation. At some point, the national gross domestic product (GDP) of the country will determine the value of the coin.

Some valuable points made. Appreciated. I'll address what I disagree about.

__________________________________________________________________

Ponzi, pyramid, whatever. These are just names. The truth is that any cryptocurrency is totally worthless if the power goes out! PERIOD!

3 important things:

1) the primary point that I made in this article, is that Ponzi schemes are an entirely different thing from a pyramid scheme.

The idea that the first offense taken is that I'm addressing a fault in the idea of Ponzi's and pyramids, and they don't matter if someone pulls the plug. The topic of my article was that Bitcoin is not a Ponzi scheme, that I would also address the pyramid scheme, which is utterly different and falsely represented in the press, which is vital to our global economy, so their lies matter a great deal. I've addressed both Ponzi and pyramid well, but could go on- but people would tire of the logic.

2) realizing that both arguments are flawed and are a tool used by the establishment through journalists is an incredibly important topic of our time.

If we do not address the dishonesty and ignorance of a propagandized press, we lose civilization, and that is happening on our watch. I won't take it lightly.

3) The idea that cryptocurrency is worthless (there goes the shibboleth by the way) is commonly churned out by the exact identical journalists who clearly have no clue what they are talking about. I'll respond with my points after breaking down the next part.

So, two major points to deal with, and again, since all of these points are the very ones published countless times by mindless journalistic attempts to steer people away from Bitcoin as an investment, I highly expect the 'energy of small countries' argument to come waltzing in next. But, leaving that aside, we go in the complete opposite direction: if you unplug the power, it's worthless.

So, this requires me to look at the value of everything that has power, and on some level I'm expected to compare this to the value of paper money, which I assume will be worthless even as a paper airplane to someone's entertainment if the world's power goes out. And, for argument's sake, it does have to be the entire world's power for the point to be made.

Since every country on earth has Bitcoin miners, the network will continue, and will continue to adjust itself anywhere there is an internet and energy. If all power is gone, we descend into chaos. People will eat each other's pets, then their neighbor's young, and there will be war in the streets. Or, we're all very civilized and we'll politely die of malnutrition or dehydrate, or we'll learn to rely solely on things by your definition, of intrinsic value, to which point I also have to ask; does the power come back on? Does it return to normal afterwards?

I would say to the same degree we both can now agree, to your logic, that this article and your comments have no intrinsic value, because I cannot eat them from a banana tree or fold them into a plane, the internet is of no use, and I cannot imagine why Facebook or Amazon are among the most wealthy companies in existence.

You see where I'm going with this, right?

When, not if but when, the governments of the world shift us to CBDCs, or Central Bank Digital Currencies, trust me, they will place more emphasis on making sure the energy supplies of the world do what they command, in order to protect their power monopoly. There is great likelihood that they have invested so deeply into Bitcoin at this point, that it is a matter of national security that Bitcoin is protected in such a condition.

But, to shrink the weak statement down where it began, what would happen, is that when the power came back on, granted it wasn't solar flares or EMPs that wrecked again, all of civilization on the internet, what would happen is that Bitcoin nodes would fire back up, run the .exe and re-sync to the blockchain. Over roughly 2 weeks whichever computers were first to re-attach and run their software would compete for hash power until more computers eventually increase the difficulty and we would see precisely what happened when China banned all miners; nothing. It kept going. There was a drop in hash rate, an adjustment, and it had nearly zero effect on the model. I would imagine the end of the world global power outage, if we recover at all, will be the world's best use case for Bitcoin ever, because it will be months if not years before banks get their act together, and I am certain the records in that case will be compromised.

If Windows, OS and Linux have intrinsic value, then so does Bitcoin. If you are arguing that all 4 are useless, then stop writing on the computer and go write with pen and paper. Seriously, it's a point of hypocrisy at this point.

At least with paper money, the holders can make paper products like origami from the paper or they can wipe their bums with it. If you hold coins, you have the intrinsic value of the metal that the coin is made from. However, holding the numerical key to a vault that is in no physical space is akin to owning a unicorn… as long as you can convince people that the unicorn exists, its rarity will bring it much value, but when that trust is gone, so goes your imaginary unicorn!

That’s the hard truth, no matter what your brain wants to believe.

Taking the next point: a definition of intrinsic value. This is stated not just in a manner that shows the individual does not believe there is any value in computational intellectual property because it cannot be held, or other uses made out of it outside of the internet. I won't do the long-form answer, but I have enough knowledge on the subject to demolish it utterly and completely.

The short answer should be "Weimar Republic" but I'll expand. The analogy to wipe one's bum with it is probably the best, because there are many who would place a higher value on dreaming of a unicorn than trying to pay for... well, anything, with a drastically inflated dollar. We may see this play out in real time, and the question of a global reset, or a power plug yank could very well happen, followed by the digital dollar that won't be worth wiping one's bum, but will collect every data point on each of us forever.

Let's look at the "convincing people" of a unicorn. What is propping up the dollar, the strongest fiat on the planet at present? The government requiring us to use it. That is the only thing. They control the market by how much they print and how much they lend, but if every one of us said "nope"- what is the value? Origami maybe... not payment. 

The idea that there is no value in a network of millions of individuals, exchanges, shops, restaurants, government legal tender backed by volcano power and layer 2 commerce is a level of ignorance that can't be compared to any actual tangible intrinsic value in fiat. That may sound like I am die-hard defending Bitcoin. But let me throw you a bone; it is flawed, and it is imperfect. There absolutely is risk involved. But it is the best invention that deals with economics that a human being has invented, and that is possible to defend on every level, while most cryptocurrency is not. I am not a Bitcoin-only-maximalist, as I am also aware that there are technology companies, finance companies, artists doing all sorts of things with similar technology, but none of them are Bitcoin, and that is the topic at hand.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. The fact that there are millions embracing the beauty of economically-sound code working on real, intrinsically valued hardware, propping up multiple forms of tangible value, is, in itself very valuable. It is something you can see, touch, smell, eat and drink.

If crypto-currency was mined in a way that it produced something tangible such as ore or plants or anything that could be used on its own, then we would have something very special. Unfortunately, we don’t. Ask yourself this ONE question: If every owner of Bitcoin was to cash out their coins, what would happen? Now you have your answer!

Two important points here, both which are terribly flawed, but again, I appreciate the importance of the debate. Whether the individual is truly taking a position or is a shill for the journalistic-integrity side of things, for which there is less proof of intrinsic value in today's world than imaginary internet unicorn money, remains to be seen.

1) Does the outcome only have intrinsic value if it is something I can touch, taste, smell, hear or eat? Isn't this also contradicting your previous definition of the value of completely devalued fiat money? I'll explain after breaking these down. "Fortunately, we do".

2) What would happen? Well, I would consider an end-of-the-world global pandemic that stopped all markets and commerce as a decent litmus test for what would happen. Bitcoin is still here, and so am I. You can disagree, but you cannot deny it is as valid a point as making airplanes out of dead printed fiat.

If fiat money can buy a dinner, then so can Bitcoin. But, while the dollar is constantly losing value, Bitcoin is not. It is constructed from base layer upwards, to defend its own value by a network that is nearly impossible to destroy.

Let's consider at least some of the math involved, because the encryption process defends the value, the hardware defends the value, the placement of nodes around the world defends the value, the fact that it is self-defeating to try to attack the network, and expensive as well, defends the value. But, if the only thing that lends value to something is whether it exists in physical form, then why would two Bitcoiners who both believe in it, not be able to interact in paper wallets utilizing the same methods as fiat cash? The argument would be the same, as to whether either the dollar or a Bitcoin paper agreement, were of any value, but they would be identical, except that after the cash transaction was done, there would be no record of receipt, where with Bitcoin, the trust between Bitcoiners to enter the agreement as it took place locally, would be the same bond that guarantees the network is secure. The logic works on all levels, even if one required a ridiculously tightly held definition of intrinsics.

Converting energy into wealth seems like a strong case for building value. If I can pay for mining equipment and electricity and eventually earn several Bitcoin, to which I can hold that until it goes up in value, I can sell that for a profit and use that profit as I wish. Is there a risk? Yes! Absolutely. I could lose my money. The hardware could not work. I could fail to earn a block reward. That isn't the question really. Were the Wright Brothers taking a risk to help model the first airplane? If they failed, would being able to fly lose its value? I think someone would have learned from them and built a plane that works.

Bitcoin was created 13 years ago and has survived the overthrow of governments, a global pandemic, the NEGATIVE price of oil barrels. It is not perfect, but as money or store of value goes, it has been held to a tighter scrutiny than anything in either class as money or store of value.

It is no longer of academic posturing to wonder if it has value. The only issue is waking people up to the fact that it has already survived the same challenges as every other publicly traded asset on planet earth. It outperformed the stock market without a tripwire to halt trading, for 3 days. That is the scenario you were seeking; what if everyone sold at the same time... We've lost China completely- an entire country that was seen as the highest mining point in the network. People for years worried what would happen. The price dipped slightly and then went to an all-time-high and the hash rate did exactly what it was programmed to do 13 years prior. Genius. If you wish to know what happens if everyone unplugged from the network; with China, we lost more than 50% of the mining network. Bitcoin performed exactly as it should in theory. That's a better test of integrity than any form of money or store of value has faced.

On the other hand, if every bitcoin mined/minted/purchased, produced a banana tree, then when every holder of Bitcoin asked to cash out, they would be the proud owner of a banana tree for each coin they held. If you cannot understand this difference, you are beyond hope and there is no point in trying to make you understand why people use the words Ponzi or pyramid… they just don’t know a better way to label it.

There are people in India, Africa and now El Salvador that will explain to you with much more zeal and eloquence just how much they appreciate how a Bitcoin can help them to acquire that banana tree that their government forbade of them, but I'll answer once breaking it all down.

There is a time in the near future, it is believed, that we will have an invention on a molecular level, much like a 3D printer, that will allow you to 'build' anything into existence by loading a program. It will turn bits of digital data into, for your case, a banana tree. My guess, is that if it happens, it will reduce the global value of a banana tree, because they will no longer be difficult to attain. That same invention will not be able to reproduce a Bitcoin, because it would not be interacting within the confines of the network that defends it. 'Minting' a Bitcoin outside of Bitcoin, would be a property that still cannot be counterfeited. 

A good argument could be, what would happen if a quantum computer could crack the double encryption code? In that case, the legacy fiat system is at very high risk, long before Bitcoin, and it is more likely that a supercomputer cracks 256-Bit encryption, but to the point, the answer is that if that time comes, we must be prepared with a technology to protect such a thing, because there will be nothing safe on the internet. There is intrinsic incentive to defend the potential technology because the whole technological world would actually come to a halt if it doesn't happen, and Bitcoin will be a very small question as to the concerns people have. "What about my entire life on planet earth?" will, or should, supersede "what about my Bitcoin?" in paradigm shifting scenarios.

After having said all that, I realize that having a FAKE/fiat money CAN work… we have been doing this for quite some time now. As long as there is a surplus of lender/HODLERS, it can work, but that doesn’t mean it has real value. In the past, when gold was held as security for each paper note printed, there was the security in knowing that if people decided not to hold the paper notes, they could trade it for gold. We can’t do that today and that is why our monetary system is broken.

We agree on some things here, but I'll address the "backed by gold" and use it in defense of the "doesn't mean it has real value" which is about to break like a #2 pencil during SATs.

I have to say we might differ on the definition of "work". I don't think fiat is doing what the users expect it to do, but I think it is doing exactly what the disgusting creators of the system designed it to do. It makes them wealthier and steals our time and efforts as we earn less and less. The gold standard in itself was a human construct. There is no real, legitimate, dare I say, intrinsic value to gold other than that it's shiny and we chose it.

If everyone said "no" to gold on the same day, it would be a heavy shiny rock.

So, the agreement IS the value of which you speak. The difference between Bitcoin and gold, in this case, is that everything about Bitcoin's value is provable and transparent for everyone to see. The same problems as gold also exist, and I would name them as derivatives and ETFs. People gambling on the price of gold instead of owning it, is a problem. Same goes for Bitcoin. But, if the governments of the world suddenly decided to do what El Salvador and others are headed towards, which is to back their tangible values in the Bitcoin network, every bit of their assets are known to everyone, a level of governmental transparency that no one in my government of the U.S. and certainly not the wicked IMF, want to see happen. You get away with murder in the shadows. Bitcoin does, actually, fix this.

Yes, the system is broken, but it is broken precisely in the manner that they wish for it to be broken. Even the push towards assets like Bitcoin, is part of their intention. They will profit much more than I will, but in the meantime, it still offers an opportunity at actual wealth building that no unicorn or banana tree can give us.

If all holders of Bitcoin wish to ‘get out’ at the same time, what do you think they will get? More than likely, they get that imaginary unicorn. Only those who sold earlier will have gotten something they could actually use. Hmmm… that kind of sounds like a Ponzi scheme.

Do we need a new monetary system? Absolutely! Can Bitcoin be the answer? Maybe. Is it the best system? Not really.

I'll break this one down as well. I appreciate the "maybe" but have to tear apart the "not really".

Again my example is served by the scare of the pandemic and 3 consecutive days of stocks dying at market with a 10%, 12% and 15% trip-wire that halted markets 3 times for 3 days; a total of 9 times. Bitcoin had zero halts in place. It lost more than half its value, then reached the same value before the scare, and then doubled, then beat its previous all time high, , then China banned it, then got approved for legal tender in El Salvador, and now the strength of the network is higher than before, it has peaked above $65K and there are numerous people who bought near the bottom in 2020 at $3800 who sold well over $60K and see that as a fiat victory. But, if the next thing is WWIII, the same thing will happen again. If the next after that is a nuclear war, well we all have bigger problems but the truth is, if there is a world to fire back up, Bitcoin will be one of the first things on a few hundred thousand people's minds, and the network will return, along with every single transaction that has taken place. If you remembered your seed phrases or your wallet keystore value, Bitcoin still exists.

I want to go in so many directions, because I want you to know I value your opinion if it is of a personal nature and you are not a shill for the powers that be. In that case, I can offer from the view of someone in the music industry who has created digital software that mimics the analog nature of hardware, that I value real and tangible. I also realize that the world is converting itself to digital and I think there should be a line in the sand of how far is too far. I recognize the coolness factor of a very advanced metaverse, but I think it will be the downfall of all of civilization and that is for another time.

It is an eerie thought to me, that all music and all video that exists in humanity today, is in digitized form. Does music still hold intrinsic value? It is a few small steps until there is no one on the earth using analog to replay their songs. All radio airwaves are now sending digital signals. Did they stop holding value? I might argue yes, but for different reasons- lol.

Back to the Ponzi.

No, if everyone sold at the same time, the value would keep going down, but it is a mathematical near impossibility that others would not be simultaneously buying in, which is what we saw from the pandemic scare. It went on for days. I watched it for hours each day. The back and forth spoke a language of market integrity. The exchanges worked. They were a point of failure and they didn't fail. The buyers saw value in Bitcoin to the tune of $20B in volume in the first few hours.

Back to the Ponzi- the definition is not made based on whether everyone wants to get out. The Ponzi lies in the fact that it is a lie. There is no value because the value was completely made up. The value of Bitcoin as an invention is whether it has served the purpose of the white paper of the person(s) who invented it. Peer-to-peer e-cash that is decentralized on a blockchain network of computers allowing people to transact on their own terms without an intermediary and with a record that will never go away. That is the value proposition. It has done it without flaw for 13 years. 

Actually, because bitcoin does not have inflation as does the USD, Bitcoin becomes superior to the dollar. But it still doesn’t provide intrinsic value.

Again, with that intrinsic value 'thing'. I understand it's the argument people outside of the true understanding think they are supposed to argue, but it's not much different from arguing that the mental value of playing solitaire with real cards is, to your brain, real, while playing on PC has no comparative value. So many analogies, so little time.

Does a Ponzi scheme need a pre-determined end game? How long did the first Pozi scheme last? Could it not go on forever, considering we have the expression, “there’s a sucker born every minute”? As long as there are new contributors, the scheme can go indefinitely.

Yes, it does, because it always ends, and it always ends poorly. The fact that the one the governments are playing against us is still going just means our system hasn't collapsed yet, like all those prior. One could use the bailout of 2008 and the impetus of Bitcoin as a perfect example of why we have a more perfect, technological version of money to consider.

Ponzi succeeded in his famous scheme for 1 year. Then he went to jail. It's no accident that his company was a "securities exchange". A story for another time.

 A Ponzi scheme could not survive online for 13 years in front of every nation on earth.

At least you are wise enough to leave room for doubt. By investing only what you can afford to lose, you indicate the potential for disaster is there… and it certainly is there. Greed is the main driver of Bitcoin right now. If and when Bitcoin actually becomes a universal currency (it has become official currency in one country already), I expect the value to stabilize and speculative trading to subside drastically because of the long time frame to turn a profit on speculation. At some point, the national gross domestic product (GDP) of the country will determine the value of the coin.

Some valuable points made. Appreciated. I'll address what I disagree about.

In my opinion, Bitcoin does not become a global universal currency. I believe the underlying technology is being used for nations to create sovereign legal tender that will take advantage of us in a much worse way than the current dollar, and the plan of the great reset is to steer each CBDC into international CBDC global currencies. But, Bitcoin will remain as a store of wealth, and without coercion, the sooner that people of their own free will decide to invest in Bitcoin, the more likely they are to have an advantage in an increasingly inflating fiat system designed to go wrong.

I again appreciate the interaction. I'm sure there's more beyond what I am covering here, but I hope it gives some good food for thought, and whether someone sees the value in somewhat intangible digital assets that are converting energy into language, art, music and now money or gold, is something they have every right to ponder.

On the final note, I would argue that Bitcoin is actually the very literal dictionary definition of intrinsic:

Belonging naturally, being contained wholly.

And on that note, wow look at the time Crypto Gordon Freeman for now... catching up on work... out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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BitcoinGordon
BitcoinGordon

Hi! I'm Gordon Freeman (I hear they made a likeness of me in some video game... totally unrelated... or...).


BitcoinGordon
BitcoinGordon

Welcome! This is my blog for all things crypto, from my day trading and tutorials to general crypto news.

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