Official links: https://linktr.ee/Tellor
Dev Updates, Tellor 'Evolution' Roadmap
Nick: Hey everyone, welcome everybody Tellor dev call January 9th okay today we'll just do the normal call and then go into Tellor roadmap Tellor I'll save the name I got I got a name but we're saving it all right so a few things first yeah I guess Mike did you see in the lobby chat somebody somebody found some error in our Docs so I paid you but it's we basically have the same stuff copied twice so thank you for finding that I think it was Cero it was going through our docs which is it's awesome to see you guys are actually reading our docs So yeah thank you very much we should send him like a trb or something or a t we'll send you a t-shirt zero yeah reach out yesterday he's trying to run Telly okay we'll we'll tell him we'll send him a t-shirt if you find bugs in our dogs simple and then yeah and then I think Brenda we're deploying BNB this week or BSC I think it is what's it called they call it BSC. So we'll go over there they're they're talking to us we're talking with some of their people getting some users over there which will be cool and then we're also we're gonna talk later this week with parody we're talking about going over and doing something on polka dot which is super super exciting we pushed the thing last the announcement last week that says we're up on gnosis chain also super exciting love what they're doing over there yeah so a lot of stuff going on which is super exciting Tim on to you.
Tim: Yeah so I was reviewing the reflexor pr last Friday but looks like we have some more changes to that from over the weekend so that'll be the main thing I'll be reviewing this morning well I think we're all going to hop on a one today so from if you're in this if you're a celebrity you'd have hop on a one or I'll just kind of go over the reef so reflexer is is right for people listening they're they they implemented Tellor and now they're sort of upgrading it to the newest version of Tellor to make sure it works and we just really want to make sure that we get it right for them so they have a PR open for that so we're gonna we're gonna all sit down and pull it and walk through and try and figure out what the hell they're doing to make sure that they actually do it right so it should be good we're going to be using the one two three slot that we had for schedule for the user group instead so we're just going to do that right now I only have tally and Tim Nick obviously.
Nick: But yeah so go over if you want to get that good for them so Owen?
Owen: I actually approached Telliot to further down the week because we still have to do something extra group that we're going to be pushing to tomorrow and hopefully it will be done tomorrow and then we'll pick up again with tell it I updated the the meetings but just so you know it might change hopefully we'll be done with the user group Tuesday so he asked him and then I started poking around in the Zodiac module on Friday I'm sorry is quarterly deployed is that it that's I I actually I can't figure out I haven't figured out yet what the issue is I mean I do see that it's it's just like when you just try to use the the front end it has some wrong address so that does sound like it it's pointing to some incorrected address.
Nick: But okay and Quentin did that originally so he's pretty responsive if you want to reach out to him but I think oh yeah we should definitely know how to do it on our own without former employees when I I think the biggest thing is just going to be does it have a Gourley address in there no I didn't see one in there yeah I think that's going to be your big issue oh just we have to go to the board on boardly so and then once you actually figure it out we'll schedule a walk through so you can like walk us through how it works and that way we don't have to really you know reinvent the wheel the next time and then and you can do it all technically without the front end I'm sure you know that but then once you want me to update the front end let me know I can make a PR or you can it doesn't matter okay yes are you talking about like the CLI or not even that you were using the CLI well yeah I started with the front end then moved to the DOI yeah I guess both but yeah I mean so like there's like the snapshot guys who you can talk to or there's the gnosis guys who run the multi-sig in both it's kind of this weird this weird process because the you know it's like we're integrated with these two different projects and getting everyone coordinated as sometimes a hassle but you know open source development I guess yeah I'll probably talk to Quentin see if he has some feedback Tally hey I put in review the diet implementation on Friday yeah I I reviewed it this weekend if you want to give it a go you want to push it to merge I think that's good Oh you mean to there repo yeah I make a PR and then send it over to the even posted in the dev channel on the public line yeah and then I'll take a look at the reflexer pr this morning cool thanks Akram.
Akrem: Good morning I did some work on the academic contracts fix the code a little bit cleaned it up added shell scripts to be able to run the test all at once deployed on testnet chain one at a time and yeah that's that's what I've done so far and then I'm going to look at the reflector too I'm gonna call it noon Brenda you're not but I'll at you at noon today we have a call with the Cadena Bridge people well actually I he set it up so we'll just send you the invitation to let you in but 12 to 12 30. so and then Tyler you have the mimicry stuff going too you're gonna knock that out hopefully shortly yeah cool yeah let's get that done for them so all right and then Ryan hey doing gonna still try and figure out how to get this those filter tables going on on the did feed gonna be working on the data feed a lot trying to get the girly Network added and I want to also get the gnosis chain going up on the data feed so yeah we got some requests there and then I also got we got the Grant from the graph so yeah yep oh they that'll help Implement tokens we were using their hosted service and now to incentivize us to switch over to their non-hosted service they gave us some GRT tokens so we'll be switching that over yeah be cool man we can yeah we should we should push maybe we could mark it in some other way to film now we're using this so cool yeah looking forward to it and then last Owen yeah we have the jelly at work group so I'll just be doing a bunch of docs changes before then and then ideally do a release this week some of the new changes that we've had sounds cool spotting anything spotty's back behind yeah I'm coming all right I'm working on some detailed guide type of blog posts I'll be detailed guides for how to do disputes and how to run telliate that's what I'm looking cool all right Mike or Brenda anything tally let me know when you updated that that issue form to remember if you recall we were gonna just add some more general questions to it for people that just want to like a spot price because that way I can update those links in the docs while I'm editing while I'm fixing the docs this morning okay sure thank you and Mike and Ryan thanks for putting out the pr for gnosis Nick already said BNB is going to be out soon so just make sure to let them know when our tweet is coming so they can retweet.
Nick: I'm trying to set up a call with their their marketing person this morning it's just my only options are 5 a.m or 11 p.m so I don't know exactly what he wants to you know there's only a couple things that we do we don't do we really need to have a meeting about it right send me a message saying retweet this and let's schedule an AMA at some point in the future so Finance is very like hand shaky business culture yeah I want to meet you at a coffee shop yes but let's meet in person and chat for a while so sure but it's I mean yeah but they're good yeah yeah as long as they know when to expect it and then they can do you know whatever they need to do it doesn't like you said like we can send it at some time zone and they can do it at another time zone worst case scenario so cool all right Tellor road map time I'm gonna ask switching over to speaker View pin myself cool okay first thing what am I calling it we're doing we had Tellor 360. now we're going on Tellor evolution yeah we're just gonna go straight Pokemon Vibes here so I I you know most of so like a little bit of where this comes from you know we've had some questions from people who are like Okay so you guys removed all upgrade ability your system apparently works and can be deployed to any chain what the hell do are you guys gonna do now can we just like stop token inflation can we just get rid of the team almost we're so close there's still some things that I think we can do to to get Tellor better so first off like where are we at you know like I think you can get rid of the team and sort of move in that direction like once you get like a little bit of product Market fit are we there yet probably not you know if we're just being honest with ourselves like we're we're not at the point where ideally what I would see there is tips are enough to sort of sustain the ecosystem so you have time-based Rewards or minimal compared to tips you have people tipping on all of these networks and it's giving a return to token holders it's actually you know people are paying for data in a decentralized way and actually tooling is getting built from almost the ecosystem as a whole rather than just coming from the team we're still not there yet people are starting to build some some tools in the ecosystem and you're starting to see more more usage but yeah we're still not there yet and is it something that's wrong with how the system's built or or is it something that we just sort of need to continue and sort of drive through this bear Market unfortunately and something awful pop up in the end you know looking at it you have like what's sort of the market for oracles there's like there's a market for Oracles in in D5 and and then there's a market for decentralized oracles and D5 and and they're actually two separate things like for me like somebody who wants to use chain link or would use a centralized Oracle that's a it's actually not our target market you know like a little bit but you know like we're not like we're never a decentralized system can't really compete with a centralized one like it's just it's never going to be as fast it's never going to be as efficient or as cheap and you're just not going to beat them there so so losing some customers to chain link like we've had it's it's not as big of a loss to me as you know it would be if we were losing tons of customers to another decentralized Oracle which actually isn't the case like it's not like people are saying like oh we were going to use chain link but they're centralized so we went and used these other decentralized oracles like that that's just not happening like no all decentralized oracles are having trouble getting traction and I would say we're positioned ourselves be a really solid you know lead in in the pack as far as decentralized oracles go so that said what are we going to do to sort of make ourselves better and sort of make ourselves a better option I think the first thing you know we're obviously we're going to other chains shouldn't use blue on this too much blue going to other chains and then just just sort of examples you know we've we're going to continue to do this because people like seeing it like we tell people we can go on every chain and we can do any data but it's almost like they don't believe you unless they see it obviously too just doing it makes it easier for people so like if we go deploy over on finance chain and throw up some data people realize that they can do it and it's one of those things like you know like we had or about six months ago it was just just an idea we had okay we're gonna see could can we do snapshot data so we knew that we could do governance by let's make an example of we'll grab snapshot voting data and we'll put it on chain for people to use and we had Quentin who was was our intern at the time he grabbed it and put on chain and built out into the gnosis multisig wallet how to do it we didn't have any users on that but just by showing people that we could do it now we actually have a user that's building on that exact data type so it's one of those things that by by giving people example and showing them more up on these chains it's going to lead to you know people just just sort of moving it in their mind same with you know we we had the idea of a few months ago to do cross-chain balances so you can query a balance and you can from one chain and you can put it on another one just with a Merkle root we have a user who's going to do that so super cool examples people like examples this is something that we're just going to keep doing I know this isn't the sexiest thing as far as what we're doing on a tech side but it's definitely something that has paid dividends and we're going to keep doing it the next thing that this one you know we've talked about this piece a little bit but we're going to expand it and this is unique IDs and there's sort of several classes here so the first one is just what are some unique data points that we can put on chain almost that goes back to like these examples you know anybody can put every data point on chain but a lot of them are more or less coordination and definitional problems so the big one that we talk about is like the CPI so like a lot of stable points here are pegged to the US dollar we all know you don't actually want to Peg to the US dollar you want to Peg to some stable basket of things you know right now there's a lot of dollar risk in there so like how do you Peg to something that isn't the US dollar or dollar denominated and that's really really hard so ideally you would need sort of a basket of goods that was sort of priced in cryptocurrencies that you could then go and and find out and that would be like you know if you think like the US has the Bureau of Labor Statistics all these Goods the problem is is to do that you actually need to do like surveys you need to say like what's the price of oil what's the price of housing what's the price of cars and you need to aggregate that data and put it on chain in a trusted way it's kind of a cool place for an oracle to be people have already expressed interest in this data a lot of projects have said that they would want to do this but there's just no data available this would be something that Tellor could probably do you know similar type surveys would be you know there's like employment data GDP data you know a lot of these things that sort of go beyond just grabbing off-chain information and putting it on chain it turns us into more of okay well we're sort of standardizing some of these definitions and making it more of like this this research type organization which which is really cool to me feel free to stop me if I'm not clear at any point guys so so I really like that one the other one too what it's really cool but you should talk like it's also part of our background so it is yeah so Brenda Brenda works with Statistics with me she was actually on the PPI which is an inflation index and then we did the employment statistics so if there's any team in the space to do it it's probably should be you know as far as backgrounds go not that I give a whole lot of credence to backgrounds but it's okay the next thing too so we've talked about this you could actually have so there's like unique IDs and this is sort of a subset which is owned diabetes so one of the issues with Tellor currently I don't know if it's an issue but just like how do we Define data specs so we have like you know like the ethos ethusd for instance like what what does eqsd mean and e2s dollars so right now the current needs to use dollars it actually means whatever Tellor voters believe is a valid ethos dollar price it's very very subjective and open this sort of works because it makes it censorship resistant and kind of upgradable in the sense that if you specify we want the coinbase price no coinbase can censor you because they can just say like if coinbase goes down or if they stop serving an API then then you're censored that's a problem so we have it is this a little bit more flexible but some projects might want say I want the five top volume exchanges so like we could do that we could we could specifically Define the data spec to do that but what would also be really cool is if we say like how about your Dow or your project has control over a specific feed so like you own so it's like ethusd you could make it like the liquidy feed you know and then liquidy could say you know it points to a data spec at some ipfs link and then liquidies governance token holders get to say which data spec or which ipfs link is valid for this ethios dollar price so right now they could say we're going to use Kraken binance and coinbase and then in six months they say we're going to change it you know there's some new exchange that has all the volume and they go and upgrade which link this goes to and then the Tellor reporters have to start reporting to something else that way they own it it's sort of different and and you can move some of those definitions around and Tellor could also you know back to the examples we could launch some of our own you could have you could sort of standardize some of these price feeds because the you know the more vague one really works or if you really really want to be censorship resistant and not have a whole lot of touch in it but if you are willing to have a little bit more touch you can sort of hone in on what actually a good price is which is also really important if you're going to sort of scale this high frequency D5 so you know if you wanted to know like this is the exact price at the second you would need to know the exact exchanges you're pulling from so trade-offs but I I think it's something that we can definitely play around with with a trade-offs are something that the user owns like they trade-offs are one uses whatever they want them to choose that's what it should be yeah and the other thing that we're going to set up too this goes along with the owned IDs we can do farther staking so like liquidy could say okay so each US dollar prices so that they could also add we're going to make staking contracts to say like in addition to reporting on this query ID we only want it if you're staked on Tellor and we're trying to write an additional State it's not working and if you're staked with additional state so you could imagine that liquid you could say you know listen we don't really like waiting 15 minutes for our price feed that's just not going to go we need it way faster and then we would come back and tell them listen you can do it way faster the only problem is is that the faster you do it the less secure it is because you know people could dispute it or there's not as much stake involved you know per second so why don't you add in an additional stake so now you have to stake you could probably you could have it with trb so you stake an additional 10 000 trb or some ridiculous amount the trade-off is now you're limiting your reporter set the good thing is now there's a whole lot more Stakes per report you could they could also do something fun where they have to stake liquidy tokens now projects who have a not saying that's liquidy have a useless governance token or something like that now you have to stake it if you want to report to our Oracle or something like that and and now you can have something really fast but you have to stake a whole bunch of our tokens again we're not going to force anything on the users but it's just you get to decide where you want that to be so do you want people to have more stake do you want it to be more secure just by waiting that's sort of how Tellor currently operates it's it's secure by the longer the time the more secure it is if you want it more secure and shorter time you got to beef up the stake whether you want to use trb whether you wanted to use your own token up to you but it's something that we're gonna we're going to explore and we're going to work with people to just show them this is how you secure an oracle feed and their feet personally like on the side of the protocol instead of like through Tellor and I yeah yeah so that's definitely something that I'm super excited about because because there's a lot of projects we work with that just they're like yeah and we have this token that's completely worthless and doesn't have a meaning to it I'm like guys like why don't you just just require him to stay good for Tellor like now you now you have Oracle staking for your token like now there's an actual use like you didn't have to do anything like you just are forcing our reporters to go buy more which is whatever or you can give or is your token and they increase their security it's very easy to calculate how much or how secure Tellor is and if you have the time and the price of Tellor or in the time that you're waiting so this is a very easy way to increase your security yep the other things that we're going to do I guess last probably like one of the last like Tech ones I guess you could say would be decentralizing the data specs so I'm sure most of this this one's like we sort of put it off because no one's really censoring GitHub at the moment but we we saw some there were some cracks in the whole thing with the tornado cash bees right now we store the data specs on GitHub and to update the data specs so like if there is a dispute on a feed the way that we have it now is you would sort of go to the data specs and it's like sort of off chain on chain governance you know it's it's not like hard-coded in anywhere that this is how it works but this is how we want to tell people it works is you know assuming you're like a jury out there you would look at the data specs and be like this is the definition that's in place what which way do I vote it's based upon this definition and right now it's all hosted on GitHub the problem with hosting on GitHub is we kind of have to approve those changes not that we have anybody else really we had a few people that have made emergency aspects but it's not like it's this decentralized or anything this contentious piece of information but we would want ideally put on ipfs put it somewhere to where you don't have to rely on the seller team to merge it at all you launch it you launch a query ID and then there's some mapping somewhere that Maps the query ID to some ipfs contract that has the data specs written in it and then this this is the data specs for this given query ID and maybe you could put an owner in it so like the liquidy governance token maybe you don't have an owner and it's just that's it forever so use a different query ID if you don't like it but something just to make sure that we decentralize it and remove the team as far as we possibly can and then maybe Brenda will yell at me for saying this maybe maybe we removed the team share from voting so like that's always you know like right now the voting percentages are you have like the team share the users the reporters and dammit who's the other the token holders that's right but that is will happen that will eventually happen but it has to happen once we get to the point where tips are actually greater than just inflationary rewards if you think about it because that's when users actually have a real voice of votes because otherwise if they're not tipping that you know they're not they don't really have a votes because that's how you weight them so we we only usually do that is the yeah but it will it will take time I don't know that it'll be this year if it is this year because we're gonna get a lot of implementations because we're showing people how to increase their security and we're showing people with different use cases then absolutely then they don't really need the team to be that referee because that's at the end of the day that's all that we're doing up until we make sure that the protocol is mature enough so that we can walk away and say like it's still going to be secure and be used by our users whether or not we vote like you say we have we have true enough for that anyway so and this so okay so that was like the tech changes and then we'll briefly touch on like you know the road map I put together some things like how did we do on like sort of the marketing side and how we talk about Tellor and you know like I was kind of talking about the beginning like we're not losing to some decentralized Oracle like we're we're sort of positioning ourselves I I like how we're positioning ourselves going forward especially as as the space gets more more and more concerned about decentralization and decentralization actually becomes viable I think we're setting it up and this was you know this is something that we're gonna need to just keep doing so like how do we how do we get known more this has been this has been such a topic for you know the last three years like you're going up against some big projects you want to be in the conversation like as soon as somebody says Oracle how do you get no more you know and that goes into we're launching on every chain Every Chain is going to know us and we're going to be in the docks that's going to be super big you know all these chains all these unique data points that were shown examples of these are all press releases these are all things that we can show people so we we want to make keep making a push whenever people think I need to bring that on chain they think Tellor you know they know that we're a decentralized secure option and that's just something that it comes with time and and we're doing it and the other thing like I would say a big successful sort of marketing campaign like we've really like honed in on this censorship resistant messaging so like I don't know I think we showed off the t-shirts on one of the previous calls but we had like you know the T-shirt messaging was all about censorship resistance even like the hats have been for a while and we're really making a push like to do that sort of branding and messaging and and I think it's paid off like I think people really like it so you know we're gonna continue continue to do that and then last you might want to write resistance censorship they got us screenshot on Twitter yes we're all about censorship no you know like we're not we're not flashy with marketing we're not going to ever be flashy with marketing it's just it's not how we operate we're gonna get out there we're going to continue to just meet people we're going to meet these projects and you know the more that you guys can help you know just still keeping it Grassroots and it's worked for us and we're going to keep it working so all right any questions none of this should be too shocking we've been working on chains already the unique IDs are sort of new and that's you know because we think we will have a lot more time later on the own feeds I think that's just really great for our users so they can really own their security and then moving the data specs to either ipfs or somewhere else we've discussed that before as well and then removing the team's vote from disputes you know we've talked we've discussed that and we've always talked about or gone back and forth at least me and Nick all night we need to wait until it's mature enough so that the security you know is maintained once we remove that but none of this I think I feel like we've discussed this with all of you guys before but this is basically our next year sort of yeah I mean and ideally like in a perfect world we actually don't do any of this like in a perfect world we are so swamped with Integrations and our price is going through the roof and like we have no time to do any of this that would be phenomenal like but if we do have if we do have a little bit of free time to do some more examples and to launch on other chains without you know you know hopefully other users will just launch on their own chains like they don't even need to talk to us that's perfect so and we discussed everything on the solidity side Owen for Teliot I think all we want is to like to just get it to the point where it is really stable and then we can just focus on making sure that everybody knows how to add fees and new chains and just make sure that it works like super super well and then hopefully it will get to up you know getting too optimizing rather than just you know yeah get to optimize optimize it so students if you were wondering where Taylor fits in here all right questions it was just about the adding gnosis to the data feed when you're doing that so you're going to be doing that this week yeah cool all right guys well thanks for liking no pin yeah thanks everybody for listening it's fun so all right see you guys next week bye.