Links
Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEDYVofbE10
Official links: https://linktr.ee/Tellor
Summary
During 'Tellor Week' in September of 2022, the Tellor core team hit the record button & gathered around to discuss its values.
Whole call
Nick: Cool, so this is, we haven’t done, have we done since last year? So, the Tellor values call. Why we are doing it? It’s quite important. It's an important question and I know for me like I was into to crypto I know you guys have all heard like my annoying times because I say it on podcasts but like you know like so I got into crypto for a long time and like just believe in like the idea that like if you have a free money and you know competing currencies and the ability to have a monetary system outside of the governments that, It ultimately leads to good things. The ability for governments to declare war goes down the ability for people to surveil you, you know privacy is ultimately a good thing. These are all enabled by cryptocurrency so if you can further the technology to such a point that you know people can have an entire banking system so like we realized with Bitcoin and even some early cryptocurrencies okay you can have a currency, but you need banking systems. So you need tools you need access to real world information you know Tellor was a way that we you know it was something that we fit it fell kind of into as far as we can fill this piece of the puzzle to have you know if we can add something to that decentralized stack which is you know decentralized Finance, decentralized cryptocurrencies. Then it can enable the whole system to work. And if this whole system works then it leads to people can use well money, they want they can't be sanctioned by governments that don't like their views governments can't willy-nilly go to war with each other by printing money and stealing your money via taxes and then yeah freedom of speech becomes a thing too. Like you're starting to see a lot of this blend in you know like well where does free speech and freedom of money they're intricately tied together you don't if you can't move money privately or in whatever way you want you don't really have freedom of speech so a lot of these things are tied together so how do we enable that and you know My Views have changed how we do that over the years but you know that was just what kind of got me started and why kind of I'm still here. I don't know Brenda and Mike if you guys want to add anything?
Mike: I mean so I started working with you because at the time I was passionate about helping I was passionate about anybody was like an entrepreneur starting a business that had some meaningful mission. And I met you and you had this vision for Daxia or DDA at the time and I was just getting into crypto at that time so I was really pulled into the idea that this was a mission, a mission based endeavour and through that I learned about crypto and learned about the ethos of the space and of course that was all really attractive and occurred to me that like the blockchain and crypto was like the first it's like a an opportunity that only comes around every once in a while where like you have a the onset of a brand new revolutionary technology and movement if you will and just the opportunity to jump on at an early stage. I think it's just rare. I think it's a I think a privilege to be in the here and Now around this industry and being able to play a role in it and I thought I mean for me I think that that is really exciting aspect of it. So that drew me in into it. And you know of course I think all of us here I think almost everybody watching this or on the team can jive with the you know being pro-freedom and pro privacy and and pro-decentralization and all those things and I think those are almost a given at this point like who would be against that. If you're not right if you're not into that it's kind of like I don't know.
Nick: I think that's a fair question we can talk about well yeah.
Brenda: I don't want to talk about me because you guys are like me. You know for me it was a little bit different because when we first started working together on this, I just learned about really like I had been doing my own research but for literally just I just wanted to invest on it to be honest. When I started looking into it when I started talking to Nick and especially for Daxia one of the things that really like attracted me was the fact that this thing was actually making available risk mitigation tools to people that actually needed them. In my view that's important and it's a very different music like how to make things and whatever but for me was super important to actually make these things like be part of the conversation they got this to be a little bit better than what we had and as an economist it was like wow like I'm at the right age. It was like perfect timing for me in terms of Where I Stood financially to take such a huge risk. I mean you had a great career I had a great career and we didn't just walk out of it because without me I thought it was something of some substance and I wanted to be part of the conversation of how that went about. Then we found out that like you know the infrastructure working there and I was a shock when we were talking about you know we had in oracle and we had like fallbacks and I we used to call in you know I used to have to go and like make sure that the numbers were there so we could settle and I remember thinking like how people forget like something so important like I just could not believe that that did not exist when we started Tellor like I was like how like how do you think about that we were building stuff when we first started it. I didn't think that this did not exist I thought like for sure it got to be there and like we kept looking and looking and it was just shocking to me tonight yes.
Nick: What was it that had to be there?
Brenda: Oracles. Yeah how can you not be native for you to be able to get outside information like for me it was just like but he would then you know that that was part of like the learning process of how everything works and you really you were a programmer before and learning solidity itself was so shocking because it was like what you can only have how many variables again. It was so limiting that it was just I don't know for me it was great to be part of the conversation and hopefully like grow with the industry now I know now I don't actually program anymore because you guys still follow hard work which is great, But it's one of the ways that like I learned to really like grow with the industry and care about it in my own terms and how I perceive hopefully knowing how it works and being able to use it for my I guess not super personal though but yeah like in in a way that I experience working less for a lot more people like. Sometimes to be honest I see what's going on in crypto and I'm just like oh my God. Yeah it's just sometimes so crazy and so it's just such a young industry and so it's really manipulated that it's like that is that that's why it makes it more important that we're actually here or at least for me like trying to at least listen in and hear where it goes or.
Mike: Anybody else want to go?
Nick: Yeah, anybody else want to say like why you got in what do you guys think I mean the one thing you could say is like you know maybe you guys can at this like what were the kind of the values you saw originally in stellar and then like yeah, I mean where is this stuff changed over the past years or have you guys changed as far as why you're in space over the past few years.
Ryan: I will be the first to admit that I was holding ChainLink when I started Tellor but I I was in crypto like I was into crypto from like 2017 I came in on that boat and I've just always been fascinated by the innovation that we're having through the the idea of money and I actually had no idea the importance of oracles when I joined Tellor I just met Mike through a solidity course wanted to get in crypto really bad and we hit it off pretty well and I thought it would be a great situation and I've been here for two years already. I'm like really grateful that he was like I landed here as my first project as opposed to like an nft project because like you guys said the infrastructural part is so it's still like very much being developed and yeah it's just really great filming here not just some flash in the pan like money grab.
Mike: You make a good point about infrastructure if you and I think we should consider oracles as infrastructure right but like if you're working, I think this the project in the space working on infrastructure it's like you can't skip over the values of crypto when you work on infrastructure. Because there's Nuts and Bolts. Like those values are built into this and bolts of ethereand the Bitcoin and stuff like that and if you are building you're interacting with that stuff like you can't it's unavoidable you have to do that whereas if you're just building on top of it then you can just almost choose which parts really matter to you as much but.
Spuddy: I think when most of the crypto space when it comes to oracles is kind of phoned in yeah so far which is disappointing. When I met Nick and Mike and Brenda I didn't know what an oracle was or a smart contract. I thought they were trying to scam me down you know and we were but so yeah I kind of went home and learned about it and everything and got more involved.
Mike: Well so you were mining well before.
Spuddy: I was mining I knew I knew like the crypto proof of work cryptocurrency was and crypto appealed to me immediately because I grew up in a place where I grew up in Appalachia and I don't trust institutions as much as a lot of people. I like having control over my life as much as possible without having to depend on companies for my you know for my money or whatever is going on so when you when you when you saw this I was into Z cash yeah right Z cash now okay so.
Nick: The whole idea of like controlling your keys yeah and all that stuff people like I'll be my own bank I have.
Spuddy: I used to have a Bitcoin wallet that I memorized that I don't have written down anymore wow that's that's that's cool yeah yeah. I think it's amazing to have met Tellor by chance because the Tellor is trying to build like a truly you know an article that can be used you know permissionlessly without even some guy in Appalachia even some yeah some random there's there's somebody submitting weird stuff on mainnet right now that I'm like you know.
Tally: But so that one little detail it's like actually kind of a cool Milestone because you were really itching for a while to get to a point where like people are using us without documents yeah in ways that we don't expect to participate that should be the norm eventually.
Mike: And that's a value that's a that's a up until now kind of an unachieved.
Nick: We've hit it a few times like for random scams back in the day but sure yeah.
Spuddy: There's random new reporters now according to the data like I see them on the data feed and there's random contributors on the GitHub.
Tally: And our number of reporters went up like 50 we're at 136 now on mainnet only yeah check the monitor hey respond I always remember this is a link to it yeah yeah.
Mike: We should create a Wiki that's just an intro against Wiki or something like that yeah, we need dashboards and like it's you know we could just have all that stuff stored and you can all access it async you don't need to think everybody.
Nick: Yeah, I mean Tim anything you want to add?
Owen: Yeah, the bags only yeah.
Tim: I kind of came from got an economics degree and I was really into econ stuff like using incentives to help people coordinate and then I also had some kind of some experience in computer programming and so those two interests over the years and then along came crypto, I found that back in 2017, and it really drew me in this this decentralized system that didn't depend on some company or government to make it work to make the people in the system follow a set of rules. Yeah that's what really drew me in like I saw all these different articles of people's ideas of different things you could do with the school new system with smart contracts and then yeah so I got started working at Raid Guild in crypto and then one point I worked with Tellor and they seem to have some good value so actually having true decentralization as a value whereas a lot of projects in the space kind of use that word but they don't actually have anything to do with decentralization but yeah what really got me into crypto and Tellor is I just see a lot of potential for creating like ways of human coordination, different types of Institutions. That are enforced not top down and not with violence but with this new crypto economic system yeah that's what got me here.
Nick: Oh yeah Akrem, Owen you can swim in or I guess you don't have to. Cool.
Mike: Oh come on no it's fine.
Nick: I'm going to make sure they talk later.
Owen: Oh what yeah I got I applied for this job I found it on LinkedIn because tally and I went to the same school I like the team culture a lot I like that it's a chill workplace flexible schedule huge bonuses there and it's less morally vague than working on the defence industry that's where I came from yeah I get a lot out of working for a team that's like you know into what they're building and not just there for cash out kind of thing.
Mike: Yeah well I mean what they're building.
Nick: I like that as a statement because it's well I mean like it's going to get you know like I think the values of a crypto company are you know like we can bring it up like it's becoming more and more relevant as time goes on. You know like the big caveat is the last month was the tornado you know like I know we had talked about it before like it's forcing people to pick sides and.
Brenda: And we're building something that we all think it's going to be used for something good just like cash it cash is also used for lots of bad things and still exist in my mind the way that I see it is that we're building something that's going to you know hopefully enable like really cool things in the space and with you know it sounds maybe rather naive but that's what I'm building. I go to sleep at night every day like happily and I know that what we're building it's creating value and we're actually providing a service we're not trying to scam anybody we're super honest about how it work and hopefully if that ever does happen we can all be like you know what we tried our best to build something that was useful and valuable and created you know a positive impact.
Mike: Tally you were the first person that described Tellor using the phrase calling it a public good. Yeah I think that like that I mean it's obvious when you think of it that way but that word never popped in my head that's exactly what we're trying to do create a public good that is autonomous you know this stuff should be yes of course that should be it's exactly like ether itself isn't public good yes so.
Tally: I think the thing that really stands out to me compared to two years ago is removing proof of work I think it made ease of interaction aside from user experience like ease of interaction with the oracle a lot more accessible and I think it's enabled us to get to places where I don't remember this on topic but it is to get to places where we can get that person who's reporting on us and we don't know yes. I think I we call I mean in the states we usually call these programmable money and I feel like we're getting to the point where the programmable oracle especially compared to like competitors that really black box the methods at which people create feeds or request data or submit data yeah.
Nick: I mean so you know that's like a good pivot like my next restaurant so it's like how are we doing so far you know like if you look at like what our values are like think about the global what's the mission, I guess of Tellor like we're never doing a mission statement I refuse to do that but what's yeah like. I mean how are we doing as as a company and moving towards some of this stuff.
Mike: I think we've made really big strides recently in terms of getting to the point where we've always would say we want to be easy to use and anybody can use it but it was not practical for that to actually happen without our hand holding and I think we're on we're approaching so we're starting to see those results that were like if it is a public good that no one could figure out how to use and that then this is it really what is it you know. So like the work that you guys have done to make it usable and more functional and I think we're finally arriving at that sweet spot and I think for a while that was still just in research in development mode and iteration mode and it's really exciting to see that we're like we're at that spot.
Nick: We better be for 360.
Tally: I think we something that we develop but understate is like we avoid obfuscation not only ideologically but like in our code itself and I think it should be noted to have like one of the most functional but simplest code bases in the game thank you that's good.
Nick: Yeah so, I think it's yeah I mean I think that's you guys hit my points too like I think we're becoming more usable and we've made good strides in doing so. I think it's tough because like we haven't seen the usage that we want which would have given us a ton of feedback we've gotten some usage and we're getting a lot of people who try to build on us and then for whatever reason they fall off the boat seems to be the story over the past year we have a lot of people who look really really promising and you know and then and then never for reasons completely outside the settler fall through probably just due to the bear market in a lot of ways but you know we don't want to make excuses. But you know so like we're getting better but we're still not getting those giant use cases out of Tellor that we would hope to see.
Brenda: I think that has to do also with just the way it's hard to implement this and our friends I mean you said in this last time that you went out to San Francisco the more we as more times passes by and I'm really sure if it's the hackathons or I'm not expecting sure what it is but people aren't they know Tellor like that that in itself is what actually gets them to researchers and actually a new phone because I mean the year after life it's very good it was very hard to implement us and also people didn't know about us and I feel that now it's much clearer code yes and then it's also like we're getting a lot more brand recognition and we're very young. I mean we launched on August 2019. Nick: Infrastructure projects are slightly different for sure
Brenda: Yes and and we didn't have like the marketing but in blockchaining we're in prod but they had like next door they had a huge party yeah they didn't even have code out.
Nick: Yeah chain link hit the rooftop party yes I made you guys all pay for your plane tickets because we couldn't right we had to eat luckily we could email the EF for tickets because we had that contact then I reinstated their own points.
Brenda: They had so much money for marketing and they didn't have I I think they launched like the next year later a year later in may like after we had launched and it's just the way that we had we started we really did not have the capital to do that and it just took time but also I feel like and granted with this fair market we've had a lot of people complaining and rumours and like that but it's people that are the people that actually stay I feel like that that is what makes the protocol strong because they're going to beat us for the long run. They're not going to just disappear as soon as like mingles too like I don't know how much it is right now but whatever then they just have so much money for marketing that we didn't and we have to here I mean I want I've seen a credit in that like that we have it's low but it's moving if it was not moving at all I would be more worried.
Ryan: I think I think that's what I'm kind of most proud of about tellers like we didn't sacrifice principles so like you know no ICO no pre-mine and then no yeah it's just like you know we're trying to solve a very difficult problem. So the focus has been building without sacrificing the decentralization and that has never changed and we haven't changed to chase any you know wind of the market. It's always been about you know first and foremost building the actual products you set out to build and having that message consistently stand through the ups and downs I think is like not a lot of companies can say that none of a lot of companies that did want to say that had been able to stick around for this long. So I'm just really proud of that aspect and I think a very good job of that consistency.
Brenda: I think we I mean right now we're such a good place versus when we first started every month, I'm going to make it and so now it's like to be honest if we stay focused on the tech it's way easier like I don't yeah unless like we have to do something for operations like I don't even look at the price and I just go anyway well I mean.
Nick: This is but it's like a fair question I think you could ask like one assumption that we've had from the beginning and this will go into the branding and marketing is that if we build it right yeah like our vision of where the space is going you know like what we can say like you know it's going to be like evm chain it's roughly in multi-chain world and then like what will people want is oracles people will eventually want the decentralized oracles just like they want decentralized chains and that will do it and the assumption we've had all along is if we just build it right eventually it will come around you know this has always been the Assumption like yes in the short term that people will do this is is that still a fair assumption? The question you know like do we do we call it a success if we build it completely right and nobody pounds, I don't think it's an assumption.
Brenda: I think it should be what are we targeting because even at this point ether is very expensive but for some reason it's still like the bench if you know that's why the bridges are known to it. So it depends I feel like that has to defend obviously we want the company to start seeing but how much are we willing to like train up you know because yeah you could say like nobody use but as we've seen even with ether being super expensive people are still there. People are still trying to bridge to it settle to it and it's not just an assumption yeah, I think absolutely would be a success.
Mike: It would just be a shame if we built this thing you know the corny phrase be the change you want to see in the world or whatever like that's what we're trying to do and if the world doesn't actually change with us like it would be a shame it just you would be able to you know be able to die proud of what you've tried to.
Brenda: Do it's like a tomorrow if you're wearing down financially oh yeah you know he looks pretty tagged I don't think that's all I really think it was a failure right so and it could still be picked up by any community that wanted.
Mike: I do think we should make sure we do whatever we can to make it adopted like it would be a shame especially if for some reason we were one of the barriers for people using it in some way. Through some oversight or undersight or whatever, but if it's some outside course just the people themselves don't have the appetite for decentralized protocols and they just build a full fintech you know and them you know we did our sure.
Owen: I mean if no one is using it then how can you really tell if it's you're building this like perfect tool you know what I mean exactly well I mean that there's like it's like it like concrete examples and then you have like this other okay like if no one's using it like if this you know if you're like mission driven then it's basically like you take the reality that most people don't care about decentralization they're just like in it for the bags and like they don't care about like which or oracle, So where you have to compete is like on the developer experience and if our developer experience is not as easy as ChainLink’s or we ain't going to get used you know what I mean so it's like the two birds with one stone thing seems like what you're doing with like wag fight where it's like yeah we need to we get we're getting to the point where we can like build on top of the tools, our actual like product or whatever Tellor now we can build like a bunch of examples of using it and whatnot and making yeah experience way better.
Mike: And the challenge there right is like if you're my assumption is if you're super centralized right the developer experience is much easier to engineer to be user friendly versus having to add in the hurdles and the challenges that that being really centralized presents so if it's actually a much bigger achievement to have a really smooth developer experience and user experience if you're also true to decimalization and that's a cool a cool Target to a cool goal for us to go after but yeah I mean.
Nick: I think Owen's point like you need usage in some fashion to show the success of it otherwise you're just guessing that it that it's good.
Owen: I mean that's like the thing with like every single start-up is like you like have you're like looking for like this product market fit and it's like you need users.
Nick: In some way you could you could just frame it as like a research paper type thing like you know we're adding to the literature of things that are possible you know like if I built a really cool zero knowledge proof thing like I might not have any intention of getting users for it but it does add to the literature for people to do later and that might be something that you know like you could call that a success in some ways. I don't think that's what we're going for here no.
Mike: Way ahead of its time sure in like a decade later someone basically does something derivative of that.
Nick: Yeah exactly you know and but like I don't think that's what we necessarily want like we do want to get the usage now and.
Owen: I think you just want to be a citation Mike okay.
Nick: I'm just describing the possibility that it could be the case right like the hash you know but.
Brenda: I think that's one of the reasons I mean Tellor's gonna be much simpler Telliot is looking really great just the fact that we doubled in with quarters I'm still like why yeah who's doing this but obviously I mean I would like to think that's because he is easier yeah maybe because.
Spuddy: It might be because trb was worth it.
Owen: Could just be a lot more Krasi you know you never know we all Krasi.
Spuddy: It's not all Krasi, it's Krasi has like a signature on his on his reporter.
Mike: Krasi was here.
Spuddy: But yeah shoot no I'm sorry I lost it I was going to remind me of that like.
Owen: Where it's only not like their twitch handle and like their address or something in like some bytes data so like when you like front run people yeah.
Spuddy: Yeah he did he really did that's right but okay so recently with recent events tornado cash advance usdc address is getting censored there's a lot of voices on crypto Twitter we've made it very clear that they do care about things being decentralized and you know promotion less and you know they're at least on Twitter a large you know vocal course that says you know we want to build stuff that can't be solved people say that yeah. Terror two. Well I think projects say that but then when it comes down to the money I want to make sure that well I don't know I don't know how to do it but it would be great if we could connect with people more people who actually care as far as we can well.
Nick: I mean like we were almost the Oracle for dydx earlier in the year and then yeah you know and then they they've shown their hands they quickly censored people before even being like maybe they were asteroids they require a kyc yeah like you know it's just they they're building something different and they said they're looking into building decentralized front ends and it's like we were trying to build decentralized products front ends back in 2018 it wasn't like this was a new idea like you know it was yeah the fact that you haven't looked into it until somebody tried to censor you just shows where you sit. So you know yeah I think I think when we get usage it's going to be from people who aren't funded by the same IDs is funded by you know it's going to be people who don't need to get Visa to return on their capital.
Brenda: And I think that's really hard to find because you know when you have a advocacy or any investment depending on who it is that you have accountability and that's very hard to find when you have start-ups in a brand new industry most of them are going to be funded from somewhere and I mean I feel like we got kind of Lucky with them any I think it was mostly because of our advisors in the turnover. But nobody really looked into our Tech really.
Nick: I got lucky that we've been raised by anybody.
Brenda: No advisors were very nice yeah you know hands off but other I mean even the new ones like they're more like you know I'm impatient enough about the money but like yeah you're not going to get that as a start-up with no money and most of these the people in crypto unfortunately it's like 20-year-old they get bad advice yeah and they're looking a lot of them just looking to like make money and go. And that's different.
Spuddy: Those the protocols that make money and go will go yeah that's the thing yeah and I can't I don't have a lot of data to prove it but I believe that over time the decentralized are really the centralized system is more valuable a centralized system that pumps and dumps and goes away you know bitcoin's been around for a long time everybody agrees that it's decentralized that people love it ether has been around for a long time people agree that it's decentralized and even though it's expensive people love it. So you know one of them all of the L1 chains and L1 chains you can see it more clearly because there's more of them and they raise more money or whatever but and the centralized ones pump and dump and go away and.
Brenda: I think that's honestly conferences we see a lot of people yes that we keep seeing and seeing there's a lot of people like that when you see once but I feel like there's just a few years see them yeah and it just takes time there has to be something getting through after these bear market yes we're the same faces yeah.
Spuddy: There has to be something about Tellor that's breaking through the noise because the token is very heavily traded more than a lot of other low cap tokens. It's got to be something there.
Brenda: Yeah and we're trying we do try to be flexible and when we did try the fellowship we tried it but we tried it to try and onboard people and it didn't work. What else could we try? It's not like we haven't it's not like we're just like said to be a citation this is like what you know what else should we try.
Mike: We did we decided to tiptoe out of like well maybe we need to give people a stepping stone towards decentralization and like hook them into the Tellor world through fellowship.
Tally: We're currently not having any developer relations no I mean developer relations like activities in which we like do education and things like that like I at least one thing that came to mind for me from the last act upon is that I started or like at least on my end like I started prepping to do education zero for the hackathon a week before the hackathon and it showed me so many places where I try to think like if I wish I started doing this like three weeks earlier yeah so that I could prepare material that was not only more engaging but more in tune with like what we currently have live on networks and live on the documentation.
Nick: Yeah I mean I think a lot of that's going to come just like part of the big problem with Tally's stuff is that we have been moving pretty quickly and updating things so everything that we did six months ago is outdated. You know hopefully you know once 360 launches I mean even now like the 360 like none of the flex stuff is good none of the polygon docs will change yeah it'll be like much more seamless and then hopefully everything you've done now is still good in six months and it's still good a year later so it builds on it not replaces so after November but yeah yeah yes.
Mike: Maybe it's a moot point now that we we it's in the past but like I wonder if to your point then I thank you for bringing it up it's like 100 and I agree but like if we part of our Val one of our values has been like this like Fast iterative approach what that has gained us is the fact that I think you know teller's in a better spot from a technology standpoint than it was before because we've iterated we made it better but if we had like I say we had not and like maybe stuck around with Tellor X for a while or maybe even the proof of work Tellor for a long time and then I focused on like the developer relations and making it like packaging it up content but all yeah it's content but like just making it more usable and getting people to use it.
Spuddy: One thing we don't have like these other huge projects with the huge marketing budgets is they have huge quantities of polished content with their tutorials and everything that we haven't had a chance to do that.
Mike: Well like Nick was saying is it because it's like you could spend all this money doing it and then it's immediately deprecated because of a new thing and that's like a real challenge that we've been we can't have the things we need to maybe get more users because we're improving so rapidly which we need to do to get users so it's like this Catch-22 like all of it is moving towards I think this and hopefully we're crescendoing here with 360 where like we can now slow down like the big major protocol improvements and then the focus on like everything that's around that.
Nick: Yeah I mean obviously we don't data on it but it's super hard to tell how much it actually correlates you know it's always one of those things like it's the problem getting enough better documentation or just getting more developers through to your documentation in the first place or yeah like where are we failing along that user adoption line of getting name recognition to look at Tellor difficulty implementing Tellor the fact that they could do it and then launching like where do you fail.
Spuddy: What's the skill level the skill level of the developer who's the decision maker who's going to look at the Tellor code right.
Mike: Yeah because yeah I mean it's all scale it could be guys down here could be guys up here and you have to like you can't really optimize for one or the other because it could be coming from you know anywhere on that scale.
Nick: Because I mean I know at least you could make the argument that maybe if we had better documentation or not we wouldn't have we might have more people who use this without telling us because.
Mike: It's a value.
Nick: Which is but I mean the vast majority of people who reach out to us it's not like they tried to implement us and then got stuck they reached out to us before they even implemented us or like when they're still like they look they reach out to us like can you guys do this kind of data and then we say yes and then we basically write their code and implement it for them so it's not like you know it's not like documentation had any effect on any of that because I have very few users we make even go look at the documentation yeah you know like the diva guy like he probably never even had to look at our documentation we like we hand hold them and do the white glove because that's like what we know we're competing with ChainLink who does it so we've tried to make that a priority so you know I don't but if it's a value it doesn't matter as we've seen it doesn't matter if we if we if it did the jury's out if it's a value it's a value and then we should build towards it you should but I mean if it comes between like should we just do white glove or do that like if you're a resource constrained in any way yeah and you but you do what you can I think for now I would go like lessons like it makes more sense just because we don't have that many people nothing yeah.
Mike: You're not going to say no sorry come back in two weeks when we have we will be talking but I mean like like Tally did the diet one or two weeks yeah.
Nick: It's fine and I mean that one was a harder one than normal because it was Viper yeah but you know it's not too bad and it makes it because I know for them like that one would have been one that if we didn't do the white glove I could have seen them just like not using it I was gone yeah because like people are just lazy think like they were just looking to like four code you know so it was like you know and maybe they might end up forking Liquity now anyway but that's just because we're in talks with them but yeah like a lot of these parts you know like ampleport we really had to push and I was like if we would have at any point let that go like it would have not happened like we like guilted them into it almost so this brings up like an interesting.
Mike: I know we could talk forever about all this stuff but like there's a tension between the neediness of us as a company and a protocol for something and the in a way the conflicting constraints that puts you in towards other values you have. You had these values that like that might conflict in terms of how to prioritize them you know like for sure you know and we just I guess we just do our best and we have these talks and we recalibrate what we have to anyway that's kind of it as far as questions I had. Akrem you haven't said anything? You have to say something.
Spuddy: You have the Tellor hat on you have to say something.
Akrem: Well I mean I guess I don't know what to say now after all this talk I'm going to I guess a little a little shy and embarrassed to even say it's the reason I got into all this. It's just to learn like you know just trying to learn basically to get I feel like coding or a programming and in general gives you the freedom of you know that the having that skill or that experience gives you the freedom to work anywhere be anywhere. So that's I mean I mean that's I guess that's the dominant reason that I got into all this it's not like I mean I really don't have a strong opinion about decentralization or if it's better or it's worse. That thing so I don't I don't even know if I should say that we're gonna tell but it's just I guess the icing on the cake was to like somehow end up with you guys I mean everybody's been gracious and like helping me learn and all that so well and I have a moral compass like I feel like the whole team has like the public good that you got that Tally and Mike were speaking about the fact that you care about that is just you know it's heartening it's nice.
Tally: What brought what motivated you to apply for Mike and boot camp to learn a skill learn a new skill yeah.
Nick: And we like decentralization but we have no morals outside yeah.
Spuddy: I actually like to break rules a lot wherever I can.
Tally: I'm a jaywalker yeah, it's the same person to you too in LA.
Nick: But yeah so anyway hope this was a good talk to kind of kick off Tellor week yeah, it's always a great one we can do it in like six months again we can talk yeah thanks for listening to everyone.
